rec.autos.sport.f1
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Today's topics:

* Face the truth: McLaren is TOAST! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/9b177b100304ec11?hl=en
* ramification - 13 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/2e2582f91970fe4d?hl=en
* "quotes" from italian newspaper :) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/909beef05d19b697?hl=en
* The leak came from Alonso - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/fd827ffcc4171ee7?hl=en
* A bitter victory for Ferrari - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/ede435f155d4f70b?hl=en
* The damning evidence - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/b74e958b83361799?hl=en
* {Pool} REMINDER. Virtual r.a.s.f1 betting pool: ITALY - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/3621cd0bcb204b56?hl=en
* McLaren Say... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/2aa5aebfaa6a0b59?hl=en
* Still just a 'Rogue Employee' ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/ef5ea92877d3f9f2?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Face the truth: McLaren is TOAST!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/9b177b100304ec11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 5:11 pm
From: Dreddie

Hal S. <h.sanders@comcast.net> wrote:
> "C Story" <cstory@NOSPAM.magma.ca> wrote in message
> news:Xns99A4B217BC81AcstoryNOSPAMmagmaca@208.49.80.253...
> > noone <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in news:noone-591284.17233307092007
> > @free.teranews.com:
> >
> >> In article <MPG.214b4b25e90fb3d6989b1e@news.giganews.com>,
> >> Hell and High Water <tifosoREM@OVEcomcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> They're gone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> buh-bye!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Bob
> >>
> >> They're so toast.
> >>
> >> Shame on anyone who defended them. The defenders are as pure scum as the
> >> team.
> >>
> >
> > At this moment, I'm hoping McLaren finish 1-2, and Ferrari both
> > take each other out on the start.
> >
> > Now *that* would be karma, baby.
> >-------------------------
>
> You obviously don't understand karma.
>
>
I thought that I understood Karma back in 2005 while watching the USGP on
TV, where with a handful of cars on the track, Schumacher and Rubens still
only managed to have a near miss while one of them exited the pits, instead
of knocking each other out.

Actually, that would have just been "perverse", not Karma. :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ramification
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/2e2582f91970fe4d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 5:39 pm
From: QQalextiQQ@sfs.dfsdf (alexti)

"NEAL ZIERKE" <deniserz@verizon.net> wrote in
news:FylEi.916$ed1.612@trnddc05:

> If McLaren is banned, kiss F1 TV ratings down the shitter.........
> Who is going to watch Ferrari win all the races.....
I think (but I don't have any damn lies to confirm) that most of F1 fans
follow the drivers and not the teams. This season 2 Ferrari drivers are
very close and there will be a battle for the championship even without
McLaren. Next year both current McLaren drivers are not likely not to find
a drive and you never know who will have a good car and who won't. So in my
opinion, McLaren ban won't affect F1 TV ratings very significantly.

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 5:44 pm
From: News

alexti wrote:
> "NEAL ZIERKE" <deniserz@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:FylEi.916$ed1.612@trnddc05:
>
>
>>If McLaren is banned, kiss F1 TV ratings down the shitter.........
>>Who is going to watch Ferrari win all the races.....
>
> I think (but I don't have any damn lies to confirm) that most of F1 fans
> follow the drivers

Not Luigi. He follow the Ferrari.

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 5:55 pm
From: Joseph

alexti wrote:
> "NEAL ZIERKE" <deniserz@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:FylEi.916$ed1.612@trnddc05:
>
>> If McLaren is banned, kiss F1 TV ratings down the shitter.........
>> Who is going to watch Ferrari win all the races.....
> I think (but I don't have any damn lies to confirm) that most of F1 fans
> follow the drivers and not the teams. This season 2 Ferrari drivers are
> very close and there will be a battle for the championship even without
> McLaren. Next year both current McLaren drivers are not likely not to find
> a drive and you never know who will have a good car and who won't. So in my
> opinion, McLaren ban won't affect F1 TV ratings very significantly.

But the problem is that Ferrari has been so dominant, and McLaren have
been the only team to challenge them. You can dream that other teams
might suddenly become competitive (Honda? Toyota?), but with McLaren out
there is likely to be only two drivers who have the possibility of
challenging for the championship. This does not make a compelling sport.

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:09 pm
From: "john.kulczycki@sympatico.ca"

Astraman wrote:
> If McLaren do get banned on thursday what are the potental ramifications.
> the ones I have thought of so far are
> 1) Alonso and Hamiltion on the open market
> 2) Would prodrive still happen seeing they are rumoured to be used McLaren
> cast offs
> 3) Only 18 runners on next years grid (if prodrive didn't happen)
> 4) Top two teams having to run a third car next season.
>
> Anyone think of anything else?
>
> Rob

England and Germany declare war on Italy.

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:40 pm
From: "Rafael Rodriguez"

> But the problem is that Ferrari has been so dominant, and McLaren have
> been the only team to challenge them. You can dream that other teams might
> suddenly become competitive (Honda? Toyota?), but with McLaren out ...

Renault want the last two championships not McLaren.

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:56 pm
From: "Hal S."

"AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:q1lEi.46008$rr5.39420@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
> news:__kEi.46007$rr5.37627@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Astraman" <rob.stirk@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:46e1d547_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>> If McLaren do get banned on thursday what are the potental
>>> ramifications. the ones I have thought of so far are
>>> 1) Alonso and Hamiltion on the open market
>>> 2) Would prodrive still happen seeing they are rumoured to be used
>>> McLaren cast offs
>>> 3) Only 18 runners on next years grid (if prodrive didn't happen)
>>> 4) Top two teams having to run a third car next season.
>>>
>>> Anyone think of anything else?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If Mclaren are banned for say next year, then I expect Alonso to go to
>> Renault, especially as there is the smell of flav all over Alonso's
>> current actions. Remember, Alonso brings 0.5sec to any team, and Renault
>> sure do need it.
>>
>> Hamilton to Prodrive for a year 'character building'. Mercedes and all
>> its tech to Prodrive. Most of the Mclaren design staff to be 'loaned' to
>> prodrive.
>>
>> Wouldnt supprise me if there were a plan already in place.
>>
>> Lastly, I would be completely supprised if Ron resigned *IF* Mclaren were
>> found guilty of using stolen IP and were banned for next year.
>>
>> AC
>>
>
> To add:
>
> If Mclaren were banned next year, I would not want to be on Ferrari's
> security detail at the 2008 British GP. That could be a little hairy.
> Remember, like anyone could forget, Hamilton is the new British sporting
> darling. Also remember Britain has an insane tabloid press. You can bet
> that a storm will be whipped up. Could get nasty for Ferrari guys.
>
> AC -------------------------------

So you're saying Brit F1 fans are no different than Brit football hooligans?

--
Hal S.

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:00 pm
From: noone

In article <46e1d547_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
"Astraman" <rob.stirk@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> If McLaren do get banned on thursday what are the potental ramifications.
> the ones I have thought of so far are
> 1) Alonso and Hamiltion on the open market

Look for Hambone to serve some sort of suspension for aiding and
abetting a violation of the Rules.

--

.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:04 pm
From: noone

In article <q1lEi.46008$rr5.39420@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
"AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote:

> If Mclaren were banned next year, I would not want to be on Ferrari's
> security detail at the 2008 British GP. That could be a little hairy.

I would. Ferrari could equip me with a Beretta AR70 and a Benelli Nova
Pump, and I'd keep the entire lot of you wussies away from God's Team.

> Remember, like anyone could forget, Hamilton is the new British
> sporting darling. Also remember Britain has an insane tabloid press.
> You can bet that a storm will be whipped up. Could get nasty for
> Ferrari guys.
>
> AC

See above.

--

.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:06 pm
From: noone

In article <FylEi.916$ed1.612@trnddc05>,
"NEAL ZIERKE" <deniserz@verizon.net> wrote:

> If McLaren is banned, kiss F1 TV ratings down the shitter.........
> Who is going to watch Ferrari win all the races.....

All real F1 fans.

That's all a real F1 fan wants to see, anyway.

--

.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:10 pm
From: noone

In article <46e1f30d$0$19632$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Joseph <joseph@eliminatespam.com> wrote:

> But the problem is that Ferrari has been so dominant, and McLaren have
> been the only team to challenge them. You can dream that other teams
> might suddenly become competitive (Honda? Toyota?), but with McLaren out
> there is likely to be only two drivers who have the possibility of
> challenging for the championship. This does not make a compelling sport.

Should make for the greatest season in F1 history.

I'd love to see Ferrari win every race.

--

.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:43 pm
From: Dreddie

noone <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
> In article <46e1f30d$0$19632$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Joseph <joseph@eliminatespam.com> wrote:
>
> > But the problem is that Ferrari has been so dominant, and McLaren have
> > been the only team to challenge them. You can dream that other teams
> > might suddenly become competitive (Honda? Toyota?), but with McLaren out
> > there is likely to be only two drivers who have the possibility of
> > challenging for the championship. This does not make a compelling sport.
>
> Should make for the greatest season in F1 history.
>
> I'd love to see Ferrari win every race.
>

And, as a child, all I wanted to see was my favourite team win every game!

How exciting! Until I started to play competitive sports and realized that
such things were boring because the test of any good team is losing and how
they managed it, especially when I was on top teams in hockey that showed
how we fought back after a good shit kicking or a bad season; not to forget
how our opponents put us to the wall and were good too.

As someone whose love for Ferrari began when Gilles was a driver, I rarely
saw consistent victories. That certainly didn't stop me. But I've long
since tossed away my "fan boy" notions.

I like to watch the competition.

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 9:25 pm
From: Bob Dubery

On Sep 8, 12:48 am, "Astraman" <rob.st...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> If McLaren do get

IF

IF

IF

I do think that there is in the latest turn of events an element of
FIA wanting people to put up or shut up.

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 9:33 pm
From: Dreddie

Bob Dubery <megapode@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 12:48 am, "Astraman" <rob.st...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > If McLaren do get
>
>
> IF
>
> IF
>
> IF
>
> I do think that there is in the latest turn of events an element of
> FIA wanting people to put up or shut up.
>
>
Cutting out McLaren from next year's season is tantamount to any sporting
league ridding itself of a well renowned contender and vital organ for
survival. Cutting off its nose to spite the face.

They may as well take Jack Bauer from 24 and substitute his real life Dad!

(Where is Donald these days?)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "quotes" from italian newspaper :)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/909beef05d19b697?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 5:46 pm
From: "L.mongbean@gmail.com"

On Sep 8, 8:34 am, "Astraman" <rob.st...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> "RzR" <2r4z...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fbshk5$ri7$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
>
> > "Do you know that I've found out how Ferrari is able to get its tires to
> > work to perfection?" de la Rosa was quoted as writing to Alonso earlier
> > this year.
>
> > He added: "Nigel Stepney told Mike Coughlan."
>
> > "I don't believe it," Alonso reportedly replied.
>
> > lol...who writes this shit
>
> You say that but what if it is true. I am starting to think there is a lot
> more to it than meets the eye. IF it is true, you have got to say that de la
> Rosa was a very stupid boy putting that in an e-mail, and Alonso has shown
> good foresight for keeping it.

Good foresight or just media mumbo jumbo? italians will print any
thing to grab a head line there lives run at a million clicks a min,
just look what they do to the moto GP C.Stoner is winning but all
there talking about is why is Rossy losing ....there fools!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The leak came from Alonso
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/fd827ffcc4171ee7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:05 pm
From: Jonathan Peirce

>>
>
> That Ferrari did this is already admitted, imbecile.
>
> Ferrari=Ferraris's employees, just like McLaren= McLaren's employees.
>
> You can't have it both ways.
>
> Suzie

actually, some here think you can.

Stepney=Ferrari, Coughlin= 'Rogue Employee'

JP

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:42 pm
From: a_Frank

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 00:00:00 +0100, "Probert"
<nick.wf1commdept2@btinternet.com> wrote:

Just a little note. Could you at fix your sig so it's not a valid sig,
or perhaps just move it to the bottom of your posts ? ;-)

--

Regards, Frank

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:04 pm
From: "Probert"

"a_Frank" <fajp@notthis.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:jav3e3dg3li30jp9aua92gecj74arok06h@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 00:00:00 +0100, "Probert"
> <nick.wf1commdept2@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Just a little note. Could you at fix your sig so it's not a valid sig,
> or perhaps just move it to the bottom of your posts ? ;-)

I just noticed that too ;-). Just goes to show how badly you set things up
when you've been away for a while... or I do, at least.

--
Cheers,
Probert.

(Better?)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A bitter victory for Ferrari
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/ede435f155d4f70b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 6:48 pm
From: Greg Campbell

Paul Ian Harman wrote:

> "AC" <xxx@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
> news:m99Ei.11260$F77.8316@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>> I like where you are coming from. I just love a bit of a rebellion. But I
>> dont see it. Im not exactly sure why the other teams would follow Mclaren,
>> if Mclaren are found guilty.
>
>
> Wasn't there already a breakaway series being planned for 2008? IIRC
> practically all the manufacturer teams except Ferrari were deadly serious
> about it.
>
> Paul

The GPMA was serious... about forcing Bernie to cough up more $.
All grandiose talk they spewed about 'reform' and 'for the good of the
sport' was shown to be BS when they lined up to take their check.

They really could have forced reforms in the arguably corrupt FIA, but
found it much easier to sell out. That didn't stop Flabio from whining
to high hell when Fred received that BS 'impeding' penalty at Monza last
year. (The first of many similar incidents over the last year.) I can't
help think of the old tale of the Frog and the Scorpion. I rather hope
the whole lot of 'em drown in the river.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The damning evidence
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/b74e958b83361799?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 7:21 pm
From: Greg Campbell

CatharticF1 wrote:
> Greg Campbell <ggeonerdd@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583
> @newsfe06.phx:
>
>> Hell and High Water wrote:
>>
>>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>>> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from which
>>> it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was used to
>>> help McLaren with its set-up.

>> Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
>> settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
>>
>> Doh, Homer! DOH!!

> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing the
> Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a month or so
> of design, work, and testing before the car could properly make use of a
> significantly different tire".

> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to know
> how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.

> Of course it it would.

Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!' (But
you might first take the time to prove that some form of data exchange
actually occurred!! As of Friday, 9/7, I don't believe any such proof
has been offered.)

The tilt of the original post was that a 'stolen' Fez setup would
somehow transmogrify the sluggard Macs into world beaters. That's absurd.

Again, without knowing what data - IF ANY - Fred and Pedro exchanged, it
is impossible to say anything meaningful. That doesn't stop the
Frothing Ferrari Faithful types from calling for Ron's head on a stick,
and throwing shit at anyone who doesn't 'mega-ditto' their immediate
sycophant support for the 'Great Crusade' you presume to champion. Take
your shit and .....

> That you or any of the Denial Club pretend that McLaren engineers couldn't
> make use of detail of a car running Bridgestone tyres with cardboard and
> string suspension speaks only to your bias.

'My bias' - LOL! Sorry, nitwit, I've never been much of a joiner.

I'm calling total f-ing bullshit there, pal. To paint me as a card
carrying 'Denial Club' member is chickenshit. Neither you nor I have
any clue what data was in the book, or what data may or may not have
been exchanged between various drivers. The Frothing Ferrari Faithful
insist that McLaren would be incapable of changing the oil without the
'Stolen Data.' When I take a more moderate view, and say 'prove it,'
you accuse me of burying my head in the sand. Just because I don't
agree with your polarized opinion doesn't mean I hold an equally extreme
opposite view.

While you're digging up my old posts, why don't you re-read my opinion
that Ron's mishandling of the Hungary debacle has cost Ron/Mac the
benefit of the doubt in my eyes.

-Moo!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 7:40 pm
From: QQalextiQQ@sfs.dfsdf (alexti)

Greg Campbell <ggeonerdd@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in
news:JGnEi.98456$Vk6.62869@newsfe07.phx:

> CatharticF1 wrote:
>> Greg Campbell <ggeonerdd@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in
>> news:2C3Ei.130186$TW6.123583 @newsfe06.phx:
>>
>>> Hell and High Water wrote:
>>>
>>>> The damning evidence against McLaren is a series of e-mails between
>>>> Fernando Alonso and McLaren 's test driver Pedro de la Rosa, from
>>>> which it is clear that information that originated from Ferrari was
>>>> used to help McLaren with its set-up.
>
>>> Yea.... Ferrari spring and damper rates, ballast placement, aero
>>> settings, etc. will work REAL well on a Mac.
>>>
>>> Doh, Homer! DOH!!
>
>> Remember all of that advantage Ferrari were said to have in knowing
>> the Bridgestone tyres? And the fact that YOU said it would take "a
>> month or so of design, work, and testing before the car could properly
>> make use of a significantly different tire".
>
>> And yet now you _conveniently_ put forward that it wouldn't help to
>> know how the most successful Bridgestone runner used their tyres.
>
>> Of course it it would.
>
> Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
> particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
> extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
> guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
> findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!'
I think that at this stage the primary importance of the evidence (if it
exists) related to usage of Ferraris setups will be in discrediting
McLaren's statements about their innocence and full cooperation with FIA.

If there's a prove that something as minor as looking at Ferrari's setups
has been used by McLaren, WMSC is likely to request McLaren to proof that
no other use of those materials has been made instead of evaluating if
McLaren has gained any advantage from what they've admitted at the previous
meeting.

If McLaren revealed that they've looked at Ferrari's setups during the
initial investigation, evaluating how much advantage it could provide would
be relevant to the verdict, but now, if those allegations are true, McLaren
will likely be seiously penalised, no matter how useful or not that
information has been.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 8:06 pm
From: Greg Campbell

alexti wrote:

> Greg Campbell <ggeonerdd@ccoxx.nnett> wrote in

>> Yea, I'm sure specific spring rates, etc. might be somewhat useful,
>> particularly to a team switching tires. Unfortunately for you, the
>> extent of this advantage is completely unknown. It might accelerate or
>> guide Mac's testing, or it might do little more than verify their own
>> findings. Value? 'Yes' A significant advantage? 'Prove it!'
> I think that at this stage the primary importance of the evidence (if it
> exists) related to usage of Ferraris setups will be in discrediting
> McLaren's statements about their innocence and full cooperation with FIA.
>
> If there's a prove that something as minor as looking at Ferrari's setups
> has been used by McLaren, WMSC is likely to request McLaren to proof that
> no other use of those materials has been made instead of evaluating if
> McLaren has gained any advantage from what they've admitted at the previous
> meeting.
>
> If McLaren revealed that they've looked at Ferrari's setups during the
> initial investigation, evaluating how much advantage it could provide would
> be relevant to the verdict, but now, if those allegations are true, McLaren
> will likely be seiously penalised, no matter how useful or not that
> information has been.

Greets Alex.

One thing wonder about is this: just how specific is the information
the drivers might have exchanged? I suspect that they talk to their
race engineers in terms of "Let's try increasing the fast rebound to 6."
(Whatever a '6' may be...) Do they actually know how many
Newton-seconds per meter this works out to? (For that matter, do they
have a clue at what wheel speeds the fast damping kick in?? This is
likely to be changeable and track specific.) Even if they did, you
again run into differing suspension geometries, probably rendering the
data somewhat / largely irrelevant. Beyond that are all manner of
complex curves relating camber/caster/etc. to steering angle, ride
height, etc.... I REALLY doubt that Fred Alonso knows the specifics of
this stuff.

It's just possible that Mac, Ferrari, and other top-tier teams have
experienced a form of parallel evolution, and that their respective
suspension packages are nearly identical? This seems highly unlikely,
IMO. With such great potential for differences, both subtle and
complex, between the two teams, I strongly doubt that Ferrari's specific
setup information would be of huge value to another team.

-Moo

==============================================================================
TOPIC: {Pool} REMINDER. Virtual r.a.s.f1 betting pool: ITALY
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/3621cd0bcb204b56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 9:04 pm
From: RBrickston

In article <5kc9a5F32e50U1@mid.individual.net>, shevek99@gmail.com says...
> [Trying to keep business as usual]
>
> 13th race of the season (of 17):
> Gran Premio d'Italia 2007
> Monza, Italy, 9 September 2007.
>
> 1 point for each correct prediction.
>
> Deadline: Friday 7 September 2007, at midnight (Romance Summer Time: GMT+2)
>
> Your predictions:
>
Pole: KR
>
1st: KR
>
2nd: FM
>
3rd: FA
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: McLaren Say...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/2aa5aebfaa6a0b59?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 9:30 pm
From: Bob Dubery

On Sep 7, 11:20 pm, noone <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> In article <kNgg9OADkZ4GF...@ntlworld.com>,
>
> peter <scou...@blackhole.do-not-spam.me.uk> wrote:
> > Not a lot.
> > Lawyers advise McLaren to remain silent.
> > McLaren said they would like to address the issues, but that lawyers
> > have advised them to make no further comment ahead of next week's
> > hearing, where the team plan to make a "strong set of submissions.
> > Formula1.com
>
> TOAST!

To Her Majesty, Ron Dennis and decency!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Still just a 'Rogue Employee' ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.sport.f1/browse_thread/thread/ef5ea92877d3f9f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 9:34 pm
From: Bob Dubery

On Sep 7, 4:58 pm, Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demun...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> They are shut up - for me. About 80% of posts are filtered
> by my killfile. (Not as bad as alt.lang.asm where sometime
> I'm told there are 100 new messages at the server, and when
> I load the group there are only 2 shown!). I could have
> sworn JP was also in the KF, but I did have KF truncation
> problems a while back, maybe he got rescued by such a snip.

And is somebody now using a cancelbot? I post and read using google
groups, and in some cases there is an indication that a reply has been
made to a post of mine, but the actual reply can't be read.

Usually it's from 'noone', so I doubt it's anything that actually
contains information.
>
> It's a shame seeing the sensible posters here, of which there
> are many, spending such a large proportion of their time
> having futile arguments with idiots who are so clue-resistent
> that they'd remain clue-free even if dampened and then dunked
> in a tank of high density powdered clues.
I take that point. But there are cases of deliberate distortions, and
those should be pointed out as a matter of record.

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